throw another bear in the canoe - faceplant, facepalm

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Oct. 20th, 2007 at 9:47 AM

Further to the short-fiction slapfight, Jeff and I have been emailing back and forth, and I just posted the following as a comment in his blog.

Actually, I should point out that I have *no* exception to what, based on your email, you *meant* to say–that we need to push hard and fail spectacularly to create anything worthwhile.
If you are not falling down, you are not running hard enough.
I *do* think the puppy mill rhetoric got away from you, and people (such as myself) are reading your post as an indictment of all the hacks you find yourself forced to work with, rather than a personal vow to wipe out more often.
I strongly believe in wiping out as often as it takes.
To double your success rate, quintuple your failure rate.

So there you have it. My advice for success as an artist.

Wipe out more often.

If you already know how to do something, why the heck are you doing it again?

Mood: dorky
Music:Calexico - Garden Ruin

( 29 comments — Leave a comment )

ratmmjess wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 01:47 pm (UTC)

Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 01:52 pm (UTC)

Sam knew his stuff.

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cheshyre wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 02:10 pm (UTC)

Something similar we once heard from Dr. Jack Cohen: "If you're succeeding more than eighty percent of the time, you're not attempting difficult enough things."

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 02:13 pm (UTC)

Amen.

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stonehenge1121 wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 02:18 pm (UTC)

As an improv acting coach once told us while workshopping - "dare to suck - it's the only way you'll get better at this."

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bluetyson wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 02:45 pm (UTC)

On failure :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LLsERgyU98

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wintersweet wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 05:12 pm (UTC)

That's actually really well done. I'm going to post it on readableblog.com (and Bear, I hope you don't mind if I quote you there, too... thus leading to the first-ever occurrence of the phrase "think of what Michael Jordan and Elizabeth Bear said").

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 05:28 pm (UTC)

Oh sure, go ahead.

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cjsmith wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC)

Oh man, that's good.

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markteppo wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 03:50 pm (UTC)

Amen.

(And thank you again for all your commentary at VP; these four words lock all that in place.)

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 04:06 pm (UTC)

And you know, it's not every day you hear that from a pink bunny.

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markteppo wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 05:59 pm (UTC)

It's getting on toward that season to wear it again. My son in a chicken suit, me in the rabbit gear: fighting crime in the neighborhood.

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wintersweet wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 04:57 pm (UTC)

"To double your success rate, quintuple your failure rate."

Also good for learning languages, but it's nearly impossible to convince students of that.

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cjsmith wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 07:50 pm (UTC)

Oh, good point.

I think that is the biggest single thing that makes me "good at" learning languages. I do have a natural aptitude, but that doesn't mean squat if I won't open my mouth and TRY. Over the years, I've found speakers of other languages are overwhelmingly likely to be pleased that I'm trying and to forgive my missteps until I learn more. This has given me a richness of experience that is truly a blessing.

Now if only I'd be willing to go fail at more things. This is good food for thought.

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cjsmith wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 08:21 pm (UTC)

PS: May I quote you, or attribute this idea to you, in an entry I'm writing?

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wintersweet wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC)

Sure, if you like. :) I can dig up the research eventually if you need it for something, but otherwise, go for it.

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cjsmith wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 11:47 pm (UTC)

Thanks! No need for digging up the research; I'm going more for the personal-challenge angle. :)

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rolanni wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 05:11 pm (UTC)

To double your success rate, quintuple your failure rate.

Fail for whom?

It seems to me that if you fail for your readers then...they will go away. They may give you a book or two, by way of grace, but if you consistently fail them, you're out of a job.

If you fail your expectations of yourself, because your grasp exceeds your reach, well...OK. We all coulda done that bit better, or belatedly seen that triple-cross would have been so much more effective, or how we could have taken that character further. The ability to see where you can improve, and to try to do better next time isn't necessarily failure; it's growth.

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 05:25 pm (UTC)

I think that any novel has flaws, sometimes serious flaws, and if you reach past your capability you will run up against them.

And yeah, there are readers who won't forgive those flaws. On the other hand, every single one of us does things wrong every book.

Readers don't stick around because of what we don't do wrong. they stick around because of what we do right.

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 05:28 pm (UTC)

*g* Somebody just linked this upthread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LLsERgyU98

I offer it here.

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tapetum wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 07:41 pm (UTC)

Now this is the advice I need most badly to take, not just for writing, but in every aspect of life. I live way too cautiously. As does most of my family (except for some reason, my Dad).

Perfectionism sucks.

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commodorified wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC)

If you already know how to do something, why the heck are you doing it again?

I confess to strong inclination to reply "to get it PERFECTLY SHINY this time". How far this is or is not a useful approach I am prepared to reconsider at any time, mind you. But there's a real pleasure for me in reading something that is the absolute finest of its admittedly narrowly defined kind, too; I read Heyer for this; she does 'one thing' but with ever-increasing degrees of deft -- of course, FOR HER this led over time to an almost complete reinvention of the thing.

Also, and randomly: I like you. Lots.

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cjsmith wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 08:22 pm (UTC)

May I quote you on this / link to this entry? It's great food for thought, prodding me to write an entry of my own.

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 21st, 2007 05:08 am (UTC)

Oh, sure!

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neutronjockey wrote:

Oct. 20th, 2007 11:31 pm (UTC)

Robert F. Kennedy:
Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.

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mrissa wrote:

Oct. 21st, 2007 07:39 pm (UTC)

If you already know how to do something, why the heck are you doing it again?

I think the trick here is telling the difference between times when the answer is, "Because I'm afraid and taking the easy way out," and times when the answer is, "Because it is a good thing that needs doing, and having an experienced hand to it is no bad thing for anyone."

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matociquala wrote:

Oct. 22nd, 2007 01:50 am (UTC)

This is also true. And something I sometimes forget.

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lintra wrote:

Nov. 2nd, 2007 01:47 am (UTC)

Just wanted to share that tonight, after a talent competition at school, I brought my kid here to read this. She was playing a hard piece on the piano, and had done it a few times without the music. So... she decided to try it tonight from memory - and lost the thread of the music.

Her talent came across, but she was upset with herself for not doing the safer thing.

I wanted to encourage the guts, the trying, and I want her to learn Not Growing is so much worse than failing.

Wipe out more often. We're with you.

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matociquala wrote:

Nov. 2nd, 2007 01:10 pm (UTC)

That is a good lesson.

It took me until I was in my thirties to realize that it's okay to suck. That only by initial sucking is the eventual learning committed.

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( 29 comments — Leave a comment )

December 2009