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froud magician
It just keeps on getting harder.

Jennifer Pelland's post, over here, on how writing seems to get harder as one gets better at it is the inspiration for this entry of mine.

She's right.

But the thing is, it applies to everything you do. Because as you get better at it, you start attempting to do harder things. And what happens is that the harder thing you were trying to accomplish seems just as hard--if not harder--than the thing you were trying to do before. So you wind up feeling like you're not making any progress, right?

And if you're trying to learn an iterative thing, where each new skill gets overlaid over all the old skills, and you still have to be doing all those old things competently, and then while you're doing that, doing the new thing too. Which makes you feel like a complete yoob, because here you are suddenly unable to do this simple stuff you were just doing kind of okay. And well, yeah, of course, because now you are trying to juggle those three balls while standing on one foot.

The trick, I find, is to every so often go back and try to do the thing that was just *killing* you six months or a year ago, all by itself. And you will usually find, if you have been conscientious in practice, that you actually can do that thing much better and easier thank you could have before you started working on the harder thing.

In fact, I find that I never actually learn how to do something until I start trying to learn the next step after that one, because that's when my brain internalizes the thing I was trying to learn, makes it automatic, and starts consciously working on the next bit.

We forget, once we master a skill, that it took work to master it. Also, we forget that learning hard things is a lifetime commitment. (The arts, science, human relationships, many sports and games--these count as hard things. If you can do it for twenty years and still uncover nuances of technique or knowledge, it's a hard thing.)

And now I need to go practice guitar and do some math before I leave for climbing.

Also, I think I have too many challenging hobbies.

The problem is, I *like* them all.

Comments

[info]folk wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 08:43 pm (UTC)
Mihaly Czikszentmihalyi (yeah, I know) wrote a book that included stuff about this called Flow. It's pretty good.
[info]hominysnark wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 08:43 pm (UTC)
New words I have learned today--"yoob" and "numpty."
[info]antonstrout wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 08:44 pm (UTC)
So I should retire after book one comes out and it'll be easy street! YAY!
[info]swan_tower wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:00 pm (UTC)
The trick, I find, is to every so often go back and try to do the thing that was just *killing* you six months or a year ago, all by itself.

I've yet to adjust my thinking in a manner that lets me abstract writing into components like that. A few things, I can do that with -- I can set out to improve my descriptions, for example, and write one on its own as an exercise. But most things, no. They're too tangled up in everything else for me to tackle them consciously and deliberately. I have to approach them indirectly.
[info]deangc wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:17 pm (UTC)
For a little while in the 90's I was into the off-road driving scene (yeah, it's a 'scene'. I'm dating myself...) and one of the sayings went something like 'all a does is get you stuck further from help'.

This is similar. It is also similar to what I do in my day job, wherein I write code for ungrateful people. I noticed that I seem to spend 80% of my day wrestling with a problem that I couldn't solve. This is the same proportion of my day as it was ten years ago. I have spent ten years wrestling with insoluble-to-me problems for most of my day... except that the problems that stump me now are far more complex than the problems that stumped me then.

Writing is the same.
[info]szeretni wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:17 pm (UTC)
The more you learn, the more you realise you don't know. :)

BTW, can I ask you to give me advice on how to get over my writer's block? It's been bugging me for years now, since I lost a friend who I wrote a lot with. We just wrote fanfics and silly stuff like that, but my writing improved and developed immensely when we worked and since I lost her, I just can't seem to write and I keep feeling that I'm useless without her...

Any advice? Others have said I should read more, well I can't possibly read more than I do. ;)
But perhaps the answer is to write anything, even if it sucks?
[info]matociquala wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:29 pm (UTC)
I have no personal experience with writer's block, in the honestly-can't-write sense.

I have plenty of experience with psyching myself out not to write. (And I can't afford to have writer's block, It would be like having plumber's block. I don't write, I don't eat.)

I dunno. Just remember, it's not a performance art, and if it sucks, it sucks, you can fix it later.
[info]szeretni wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:55 pm (UTC)
No, I guess I do write a lot, just not what I should be writing - like essays, and not what I would like to write - like fanfic or stories. :)

I guess for me it's mostly about being afraid... Yes, performance anxiety. I'm scared someone will shout at me to stop writing because I suck.

I guess the trick is to write if I want to, and not care if it sucks or if someone thinks it sucks...
[info]folk wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:17 pm (UTC)
I recently wrote 50,000 words in 11 days, and while some of it's utter tripe, I found that the trick was to have someone available, even on IM, to have writing races with: half an hour of literally speed writing against a friend. We managed to crank out 1000 words or so each every half hour, and we'd then repeat that, then take a break and read what the other had written. It was SO MUCH FUN and worked really well.
[info]szeretni wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:53 pm (UTC)
Hmm, that sounds a little like me and my friend... Which makes me think that perhaps I should try to get someone to write against. :)
Like you said, for fun and just to write. :)

Thanks! I think this will be helpful to me.
[info]teadog1425 wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:21 pm (UTC)
challenging hobbies...
Me too for the challenging hobbies! At the moment, I am juggling learning tennis, flamenco dancing and horse riding on top of the writing - and I *love* them all.

What is most interesting is the way different skill sets for each compare and contrast, and feed into each other. Josh Waitzkin said that learning t'ai chi (his second skill) taught him more deeply about how to play chess (his first skill), and I'm finding that true (though on a much lower skill level!!)
[info]txanne wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)
That is just exactly what I keep trying to tell my students about why French is hard. Mind if I print it out and put it on my office door?
[info]matociquala wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:34 pm (UTC)
not at all.
[info]txanne wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:57 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I try to give 'em reading material for when they're waiting. (I also have some Jo Walton poetry and an XKCD or two.)
[info]kazdreamer wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 09:54 pm (UTC)
This beautifully sums up my relationship with knitting, right now...
[info]jimvanpelt wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:16 pm (UTC)
Good post. Thanks for the link to Jennifer's discussion too.
[info]topayz4 wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:23 pm (UTC)
I totally needed to read that right now since the "classical centered" riding I'm learning is frustrating me almost to tears.
[info]casacorona wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 11:44 pm (UTC)
Cute horse in your icon.
[info]topayz4 wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 12:02 am (UTC)
That's Grover, a grulla mustang. I had him a few years ago (a friend loaned him to me.) You can't see it in this pic, but he had a big white lightning bolt on the other side of his neck.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 02:49 am (UTC)
*g* Go talk to [info]buymeaclue. You guys need to meet.
[info]buymeaclue wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 05:00 pm (UTC)
I was just talking about this thing in horses the other day, over at [info]equestrian.

http://community.livejournal.com/equestrian/4373887.html?thread=42378623#t42378623

The most relevant bit is actually this:

My favorite part is when I get off after a good ride all excited thinking, "Yeah, we've really come so far! What a nice balanced trot (or whatever) that was! Now we're getting somewhere. We couldn't have done that a year ago! A year ago we were working on..." And then I stop and go, "Oh. A year ago we were working on getting a nice balanced trot."

And I mean, the overall trajectory is upwards, and my standards grow higher. That year-ago trot is our starting point now; today's "nice balanced trot" is a new level of nice. But it's still a moment of utter dismay and then, "Right, then. Back to work."
[info]desperance wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 10:53 pm (UTC)
Yes. All of that.

Also:

Also, we forget that learning hard things is a lifetime commitment.

My Chinese teacher - native-born Mandarin speaker, linguist, lifelong academic, in her sixties - was still learning Chinese the day she died. And I do mean learning: new vocabulary, characters or meanings she hadn't met before. She would allow, if pressed, that a dedicated student could call themselves literate after forty years' study - but you could tell she didn't really believe it.
[info]anachred wrote:
Nov. 19th, 2007 11:11 pm (UTC)
But THEN there is also doing stupid stuff like signing up for NaNo and having no time whatsoever to fix the fact that your main characters are doing more staring at each other than you would have even allowed at 11.

Sometimes I wonder.

That's when I go back and cut adverbs and feel mighty because I wouldn't have done it not so long ago.
Some skillsets stick better, I guess.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 03:00 am (UTC)
It's still not a performance art.

It doesn't matter how much it sucks when you write it, as long as you make it better when you revise.
[info]jenwrites wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 01:16 am (UTC)
Mind you, even though yoga and writing are getting harder, bellydance is getting easier. Maybe I've just climbed a wall and am still in the giddy "Whee!" stage. Still, I have a good base of fundamentals, and I can toss them together and have fun dancing with them, which is something I couldn't do not so very long ago. And it's a rare class that leaves me feeling frustrated at this point. So at least I have that.
[info]stwish wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 02:01 am (UTC)
"he Not Busy Being born is busy dying"

"It's all down hill from here"

"What Could Happen?"

"How Hard Could That Be?"

But i find some things easy, which means i don't want to do them any more. But then on the other hand, at age 60, easy things that make money are fine, most days.

And, personally, i have given up hobbies, it's just different work.

"A Change is as good as a rest, gov'ner"

And yes, i am giddy over finishing that fucking book... Wheee....

[info]matociquala wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 02:50 am (UTC)
My friend Hannah says, "It's simple. It's just not easy."
[info]stwish wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 02:18 pm (UTC)
well, history is pretty easy, but it is tedious..

"You 'ave to keep yer wits about you, doncherknow?"

My muse is a cockney this week.
[info]dichroic wrote:
Nov. 20th, 2007 02:14 am (UTC)
I need to mark this one as a memory, because it so perfectly applies to rowing. (I think you would like rowing; you learn one simple motion, and then you spend the rest of your life learning to do it better. Not that you need more hobbies.) I can see where this comes from climbing as well as writing.
[info]qe2 wrote:
Jan. 20th, 2008 03:18 pm (UTC)
Found this entry via just-posted memory links in a friend's LJ, and wanted to thank you for it. These days I've got rather a serious need for the reminders and suggestions herein, having reinvented myself as a poverty lawyer a couple of years ago after years of doing other things and having spent a formidable amount of time since then feeling dreadful about everything I don't know and can't do. Pays to remember that there are actually things I can now do that would have stumped the daylights out of me even six months ago.

So thank you, kindly.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 20th, 2008 03:54 pm (UTC)
Nothing like a career change to make us understand how little we understand.

You're doing good work, you know. And it's important that somebody does it. The problem is it's exhausting and frustrating.

[info]qe2 wrote:
Jan. 20th, 2008 05:25 pm (UTC)
Nothing like a career change to make us understand how little we understand.

Heh. And sometimes also how much we did actually grok of what we were doing before. I went back to Boston last weekend to sing in a goodbye concert for former fellow performers who are returning to Australia and bemused myself with the degree to which I felt comfortable with what was being demanded of me (mostly sightreading music I'd never seen before) compared to the current daily demands.

Competence is a shadow quality for me - I don't see it in myself until I'm reminded of it, usually in an unwatched area.

You're doing good work, you know. And it's important that somebody does it.

Thank you. Wholeheartedly agreed - went back to school specifically to do this (much to my classmates' collective horror and my resulting amusement). The bandaids-on-open-wounds aspect of it gets to me, so ultimately I want to go into national advocacy - but man, I'm learning a LOT, about law and otherwise.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 20th, 2008 05:26 pm (UTC)
Wow.

Yeah, total respect.

I'm a one-trick pony. This is the *only* thing I'm any good at. It's hard for me to imagine the guts it takes to walk away from a professional skill to do something else.
[info]qe2 wrote:
Jan. 22nd, 2008 02:24 am (UTC)
Alas, I think I've inadvertently painted myself as waaay more of a Hero of the Revolutiontm than I actually am. If I still had a reliably functional voice, I'd still be living in Boston (o heart-home, how I miss you), earning not nearly enough money as a fulltime freelancer and singing my little heart out. As it happens, however, that ain't a viable option, as I had a rather ill-timed vocal breakdown six-and-a-bit years ago (voice now better, but still not sturdy). Post-breakdown I knew I'd have to take serious time away from performing, and I wasn't content to go back to secretarial work or business stuff - and I'd been raised to think that lawyers (1) were the good guys and (2) could save the world, so poverty law seemed like the obvious choice.

And hey, you play the guitar. I have no idea how well? But I think that's wicked cool - and I guarantee you it is a skill I will never acquire.

Also, you write like blazes.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 22nd, 2008 02:41 am (UTC)
I am one of the three worst guitar players on earth. *g*

In fact, I wouldn't say I play it, so much as I practice it.

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