Previous Entry | Next Entry

The first one's free.

  • Aug. 15th, 2005 at 9:56 PM
me and a troll
[info]greygirlbeast said something interesting today, about people talking about craft of writing and how it seems to her to be a search for the magic button. (We've talked about the magic button here before, I think.)

I talk about--and think about--craft a lot. An enormous amount, really. And as I can only speak for myself, in my case, it's not a search for the magic get-published button. I've got that, after all. What it is for me, actually, is an attempt to break away from the magic get-published button. To move away from what I do by rote, automatically, and into a wider space. To hone the craft that makes the most of my talent, in other words.

Here's what I think about talent. It's true: some people have more than others. And I suspect if one is going to make it as a writer, one walks in with a free card. One thing you can do coming out of the gate. One aspect of the tremendous interwoven craft of writing that you're naturally good at. It may be worldbuilding or plot or voice or language or structure or theme. Something you do right, from day one.

Here's a secret. Once you reach a certain level of competence, books and stories sell because of what you do right, not because of what you don't do wrong. You want to talk about what J.K. Rowling does wrong? We can talk all week.

It doesn't matter. Because of what she does right.

But here's another secret. The more things you can learn to do right, the more people will like your work.

I got characters for free. I earned pathos next. Grounding detail. Then I learned how to plot. Theme after that. Then voice. Started selling stories about then. What's that, six?

Worldbuilding... um... still working on that one. Sentences too. Getting better at sentences. Worldbuilding. Heck. This is complicated by the fact that "you can't cut one clean." Like a cobweb, every thread affects the shape of every other thread. Cut one, they all shiver.

Ideally, you do them all well.

Realistically?

Surgeons specialize.

Doesn't mean I can't dream.



Progress notes for 15 August 2005:

Carnival

New Words: 1,631
Total Words: 38,288 / 44250
Pages: 177

Zokutou word meterZokutou word meter
44,250 / 110,000
(40.0%)
Reason for stopping: end of scene
Mammalian Assistance: Marlowe came and was huggy cat for a bit. I am persona non grata to the dogges because yesterday was toenail day, and I did poorly. Three bleeders. One on the Dane that would not quit. [info]kit_kindred is a hero of the revolution, as he handled most of the deck swabbing.
Stimulants: Seltzer, Rumpleminz
Exercise: none today. Previously, walking and gothercise
Mail: nomail, unless you count a Locus
Today's words Word don't know: entangler, surplusing, Siddhartha, branes, mistressed, consciousnesses, burdenless  
Words I'm surprised Word do know: illation
Tyop du jour: n/a
Darling du jour: If we can't be trained, we can be broken.
Books in progress, but not at all quickly: Richard Overy, Russia's War: A History of the Soviet War Effort, 1941-1945; David Riggs, The World of Christopher Marlowe; David Crystal, Pronouncing Shakespeare; Jon Courtenay Grimwood, Pashazade
Books read: China Mieville, Iron Council; Peter Watts, Blindsight; Jaroslav Pelikan, Whose Bible Is It?; Constance Brown Kuriyama, Christopher Marlowe: A Renaissance Life
Interesting research tidbits of the day: n/a
Mean things: Sneaking up on Vincent figuring out just what Angelo did. Bad Angelo. No biscuit.
Other writing-related work:  I should probably read this slush.

***

Fear Death By Fanfic. Just gorgeous. via [info]rutemple

Comments

Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
[info]mechaieh wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:03 am (UTC)
Amen, world and words without end.

(Except where we choose to interpolate explosions and/or conclusions, of course.)
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:33 am (UTC)
*boom*

;-)
[info]underpope wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:09 am (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure what I got for free. Characters I struggle with. Scenes I struggle with. Hm. I think I'm good at dialogue, and I'm pretty sure I have a good strong grasp of language and how to bend it to my will.

Where did you get that magic button? I want one!
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:34 am (UTC)
Where did you get that magic button? I want one!

You get it free with fifteen years of practice.
(no subject) - [info]underpope - Aug. 16th, 2005 05:37 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 05:38 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]buymeaclue - Aug. 16th, 2005 12:44 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 02:19 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]buymeaclue - Aug. 16th, 2005 12:46 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 02:22 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]buymeaclue - Aug. 16th, 2005 02:29 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]razorsmile wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:14 am (UTC)
And I suspect if one is going to make it as a writer, one walks in with a free card. One thing you can do coming out of the gate. One aspect of the tremendous interwoven craft of writing that you're naturally good at. It may be worldbuilding or plot or voice or language or structure or theme. Something you do right, from day one.

Uncannily true. Thus far, I've got exactly one thing going for me: I can do inner monologues. Everything else is a painful grind.

I'm adding this entry to my memories for present and future reference. Thank you.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:35 am (UTC)
Just. keep. pushing.

Thanks for the kind words about Hammered/Scardown in Your Other Blog, BTW. *g* There's one more set of covers to rip off, I fear....
[info]jaylake wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:19 am (UTC)
I like your free card concept. I've been blessed with one or two myself -- description, setting, world-building stuff. Long before I knew a character from a carrot, I could do that stuff. Now if I only understood how to communicate motivation...
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:35 am (UTC)
Urgh. Exposition. Fuck a duck. How the hell does one exposit properly?

*sulks*
[info]darksylvia wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:21 am (UTC)
I agree with that assessment of holding the cards for writing.

Like, Diana Wynne Jones probably walked in with the characters card and actually, I think she was lucky and also walked in with the plot card. But she's got them ALL by now.

I walked in with the plot card and maybe half of the world building card, but I HAD NO CHARACTER card. Woe. My journal is named after the first character I wrote who felt alive. I'm still working on it. So occasionally I steal other people's characters and write fanfiction about them to get a feel for what alive characters feel like. Then I put them back and try my own again.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:37 am (UTC)
It's so true. I walked in with characters and had to learn everything else.

Mad.

Mad, I tell you.

You know, you could just change the names. ;-) it's okay to cheat as long as you don't get caught.
(no subject) - [info]darksylvia - Aug. 16th, 2005 08:36 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]almeda - Aug. 17th, 2005 06:13 am (UTC) Expand
[info]raecarson wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:25 am (UTC)
I got characters for free. I earned pathos next. Grounding detail. Then I learned how to plot. Theme after that. Then voice.

This is very, very interesting, because I can think about my writer friends and pinpoint a Thing (or two) that each one does naturally. I got plot and characters for free. Grounding detail is coming along nicely, thx to a certain fuzzy bear who took some time a while back to sport me a heads' up.

Still working on the other stuff. *sigh*
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:39 am (UTC)
*g* Your worlds feel alive. That is in it self very good.
[info]themercymachine wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:27 am (UTC)
Fear Death By Fanfic.

Brilliant.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:39 am (UTC)
wasn't that hot?
[info]shawn_scarber wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:43 am (UTC)
Talk craft all you want. It's like absynthe to my newbie muse.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:46 am (UTC)
collect the set!
Like absinthe? - [info]ammitnox - Aug. 16th, 2005 06:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Like absinthe? - [info]shawn_scarber - Aug. 16th, 2005 06:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Like absinthe? - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 06:36 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]atheilen wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 05:56 am (UTC)
Characters are mine, I think. Everything else...not so much.

Hee. I once got a comment in a workshop about how well I did a main female character's youth and immaturity. Thing is, Kalian's only a year or so *younger* than me. I hope that since nobody's mentioned the male characters in their mid-to-late-thirties, that means I got them reasonably right.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:23 pm (UTC)
*nod*. Also, doing characters that most people fail to do well, well, makes them stand out.

Most people write teenage girls realy badly. *g*
(no subject) - [info]space_parasite - Aug. 16th, 2005 10:56 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]almeda - Aug. 17th, 2005 06:16 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]atheilen - Aug. 17th, 2005 06:17 am (UTC) Expand
[info]cricketshay wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 06:02 am (UTC)
Thank you for this post. I got description and plot. I am still trying to learn POV, voice, and theme.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:25 pm (UTC)
You're very welcome.
[info]shadawyn wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 06:02 am (UTC)
The elusive magic button.

Thanks for the post, that's a lot of how I feel. I'm not sure which card I got when I came in, and I'm not sure which I've collected since then... but hey. I can write lots of words :)

And I liked the bit about Rowling. I get into snits with friends all the time about "blah blah blah famous author X can't write blah blah blah" and I defend that for all they are doing wrong, they have to be doing something right. Something that appeals to the audience, no matter what one's opinion of the audience is.

Me, I just want to do something right that appeals.

Thanks again, this is a topic I've run into so many times. There is no magic button, and what works for one author, is not going to work for all of them.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:29 pm (UTC)
what works for me may not work for you
Exactly. I think it's a learning style thing, frankly. I know my own learning style. It's try, fail, intellectualize, try again, fail better, internalize the failure, intellectualize some more, try, fail at something else this time.

The bits where my brain is chewing away on stuff are like the moments in a fight where the combatants fall back and stare panting at each other, waiting for the shift that will tell them what to do next.
Re: what works for me may not work for you - [info]shadawyn - Aug. 16th, 2005 04:35 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jmeadows - Aug. 16th, 2005 08:19 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]tamago wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 06:10 am (UTC)
What a fascinating concept! It's like Pokemon. You need your six beasties before you can challenge the level boss!

Seriously, I like how some of these skills look like they nest or have prerequisites. Sentences is (are) a part of Language. Voice is a part of Language, too, or maybe Sentences contribute to Voice, like, if you have Sentences down cold, you get Voice for half price. Structure helps with Plot, which helps with Theme, which helps Structure. Grounding Detail contributes to Characters.

Described like this, learning writing as a craft is like my experience learning history. Once you've got one element pinned down, like really knowing about the Napoleonic War, or really knowing what women's skirts were shaped like in Europe for the last 400 years, you can pin everything else relative to that. If you walk in with one writing skill solid, it's that much easier to learn the other bits, because you have a stable place to stand. Now all you need is the lever of insanity and the fulcrum of dedication and 99% perspiration.

Sorry for the horrid mix of metaphors. I'm up past my bedtime. Just had to comment.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:37 pm (UTC)
Yes. You get pieces, and they make part of a bigger whole, and every one informs the next one. It's also like carpentry, where you have all the pieces and the tools and you have to make a house of them, so you need the skills, too--and the blueprint isn't the house, you know?

Or rugmaking, tapestry weaving.... whatever.
(no subject) - [info]tamago - Aug. 16th, 2005 06:28 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 06:32 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]tamago - Aug. 16th, 2005 07:35 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 08:56 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]tamago - Aug. 16th, 2005 10:12 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 10:13 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]almeda - Aug. 17th, 2005 06:28 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]tamago - Aug. 17th, 2005 07:05 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]space_parasite - Aug. 16th, 2005 11:01 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]shelleysouza wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 06:26 am (UTC)
Great post. Thank you. I figured out for myself recently the same conclusion you've come to...that all serious writers walk into writing with one or more gift cards, as you put it. And after that we have to work to find the rest, to add to our deck, so that it's stacked in our favour when we most need good fortune.



[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:39 pm (UTC)
*nod* Anyway, the books I'm writing now I couldn't have written three years ago. There's a lot of picking up shiny rocks that happens along the way. *g*
[info]dendrophilous wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 08:41 am (UTC)
I don't see the disconnect between examining craft and process and enjoying the story and the magical process of producing it. For me the examination is entertaining, partly, and I do need to learn more about the stuff I didn't get for free.

If I got anything for free, it was plot. And the basics of grammar and spelling, which I wouldn't count except that after critting so much awful stuff I'm grateful that no matter how bad anything I write is, it's at least not incomprehensible gibberish.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:41 pm (UTC)
I agree. I don't see a disconnect either.

But everybody's process is different. Specifically, for some people it's *very* black-box. They put stuff in, they get stories out, and what happens in the middle is a bit mysterious.

And dude, what works. You know?
[info]assyrian wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 09:03 am (UTC)
Hmmm. Just wondering; even if you have something like a free card, might it not be a particularly shiny card to start out with? You may have a knack for something particular, but that particular craft needs to be honed and practised, to add expertise to talent.

(I'd say something about the card needing polishing, but I think that metaphor just collapsed on me.)

In my case, it's probably an instinct for how narration and viewpoint interact at the sentence/paragraph level; what makes a particular narrative immediate, or detached; what details and sentences work and don't work in omniscient present tense, or second person past, or so on.

But just because I was good at this for a thirteen-year-old novice writer, doesn't mean I was any match for someone, who lacking the instinct, had spent the past five years learning how to do viewpoint right.

PS. What's your verdict on Iron Council? I tend to find China Mieville's books something of a challenge to get through - a rewarding challenge, but a challenge, nevertheless.
[info]buymeaclue wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 12:49 pm (UTC)
You may have a knack for something particular, but that particular craft needs to be honed and practised, to add expertise to talent.

Yes, yes. Very yes.
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 02:45 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]slobbit wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 09:40 am (UTC)
Heh. One guess as to the card I was dealt.

It didn't come right away, though. I struggled for a while, not really feeling things very well, writing from a pretty shallow POV. Then The Monk showed up, and random things started happening around him, and the most wonderful human things would pop out of his mouth. And the other folks interacted with him, and not only were their doings in his vicinity more alive, but they were more there when they weren't around him, too.

So I've got the voice, I've got the world. I'm working plot. I've got the characters, that's for sure. If that's the one thing I do right, and I'm counting the number of people who are on my flist just because of Yoshi . . . and that's before they've met his sister, and his sister's bodyguard (who's absolutely delicious, so says Yoshi), and their father the Monkey Emperor.

Now I just gotta finish the damn books!
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:40 pm (UTC)
Monkey Emperor! Monkey Emperor!

Ahem.

Sorry.
(no subject) - [info]slobbit - Aug. 16th, 2005 10:05 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]magicnoire wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 10:10 am (UTC)
I like this. In the Memories it goes!

I think conflict is my free card. Characters and voice next. Still wrestling with the plot and theme cards. But oh, the grounding detail card continues to elude me!
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:46 pm (UTC)
grounding detail....

...listen to Garrison Keillor. Or read his books. He *ROCKS* it.
[info]charmingbillie wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 11:37 am (UTC)
My grandmother used to make beautiful hooked rugs. Particularly, she would take a bunch of cut up old rags and make the colors work in ways that were extraordinary. She painted old tin too--also beautiful. But she always maintained that it was not art--that she was not an artist--it was all craft, she said, and anyone could do it.

I started out wanting to tell stories. And it turns out that I'm still not, after everything else I've learned, a particularly good story teller. Plot, in fact, is the last big thing that I need. I got good at dialogue first, then characters (who for me are strongly driven by dialogue), then setting and finally emotion. Emotion put me into more publishable than not range. I still really need plot.

I'm not totally convinced i started out with any talent at all except wanting to have talent. Maybe this explains why I started late, why I am slow to finish anything and why I have been doing this far longer than many other people.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:48 pm (UTC)
My response to your stuff is that, no matter what else is going on, I *care* about these people. *g* So maybe you have the pathos thing.

*g*

And you seem to be doing okay, you know?
(no subject) - [info]charmingbillie - Aug. 16th, 2005 03:27 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 03:41 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]renakuzar wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 12:42 pm (UTC)
wet day dreams of writing perfectly
Perhaps such dreams are part of why we should all wash our hands when we're done, like Heinlein suggested so many years ago. The ego stroke of envisioning producing perfection is a mad rush. Then, again, like some other things, is a lot of fun to learn while doing.

Walt

Sorry about the metaphors, can't get my head out of that space awake or asleep lately. While Margo's been having fun with that, I'm a coiled spring with a trigger lock.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:11 pm (UTC)
Re: wet day dreams of writing perfectly
Who said anything about perfection, or a mad rush?
Re: wet day dreams of writing perfectly - [info]renakuzar - Aug. 16th, 2005 03:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: wet day dreams of writing perfectly - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 03:08 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]buymeaclue wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 12:53 pm (UTC)
greygirlbeast said something interesting today, about people talking about craft of writing and how it seems to her to be a search for the magic button.

The other thing, I think, is that in a way it may be a sort of magic-button search. I can't speak for everyone. Sometimes I can't even speak accurately for myself! But I know that sometimes when I get going on craft stuff, I am looking for a button. The one that clicks my brain over to understanding a new bit of whatever it is that I'm talking about. And I talk about it to get there because that's one of the ways that organizes all the ideas so that I can get my head around them.

It's not a big overarching magic get-published button. But maybe, sometimes, like one more digit in a combination lock.

(Sometimes it's an intellectual exercise, though. And often times, I'm just curious to see what people will say.)
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:17 pm (UTC)
yes yes yes. And sometimes it's just fun to talk about something I love doing,and try to figure out how to do it better. I learn from my peers in these discussions.

I like the combination lock thing.

It's kind of right. Kind of like the trading cards thing is kind of right.
(no subject) - [info]buymeaclue - Aug. 16th, 2005 02:31 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 16th, 2005 02:34 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]almeda - Aug. 17th, 2005 06:34 am (UTC) Expand
[info]grimorie wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 01:37 pm (UTC)
thanks for your link, fear death by fanfic...:) btw, would you know if your books (hammered and scardown) will ever reach asia? thanks
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:14 pm (UTC)
I know they're available as imports in India, and in Australia/New Zealand (not that Oceania is Asia), but I haven't been made aware of any translation plans recently.

ou're welcome!
(no subject) - [info]grimorie - Aug. 17th, 2005 12:02 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Aug. 17th, 2005 12:57 am (UTC) Expand
[info]madwriter wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 01:39 pm (UTC)
>>Here's a secret. Once you reach a certain level of competence, books and stories sell because of what you do right, not because of what you don't do wrong.<<

This strikes me as one of the most open secrets out there. Secret because it doesn't seem to occur to a lot of people (it didn't to me until relatively recently), but on the other hand, we keep reading authors we enjoy no matter, usually, what they do wrong.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:15 pm (UTC)
It is. It's funny. And a lot of writers will come right out and tell it to you, as well.

But it's a hard one to master from the writer's perspective.
[info]ebess wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:22 pm (UTC)
You are wise, grasshopper.

You've given me much to ponder. :)
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:48 pm (UTC)
;-)
[info]nancylebov wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:39 pm (UTC)
Great post--I keep trying to corner people into discussions of what Rowling does right, but I haven't been terribly successful at it. Are there any discussions of the subject that you'd recommend?

Does the ability to keep people interested count as one of the magic gifts? Imho, it doesn't reduce to anything more specific.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 02:51 pm (UTC)
I think the ability to keep people interested is a conjunction of other things... but heck, you know, narrative drive, if you like to call it that, is probably one of the real keystones of attracting an audience.

Rowling does that, Tom Clancy used to, once upon a time....

The one thing Rowling does really well, for me, is pile up little snippets of information into a whole. She writes thriller plots, after a fashion.
[info]scarlettina wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2005 03:04 pm (UTC)
Excellent post! I think you're right about free cards. I know I got dialogue. And I think I got description. I've got half of character, the half that knows in my head who these people are, not the half that knows how to effectively communicate it all on paper—though I'm learning that one. It's work. And the rest is coming (as Mike Stackpole says) bit by slowly.

My thoughts related to this (and these are far more personal than they are universal) are that:

A) I wish writing were more like riding a bicycle for me. Twelve years ago when I sold my first three stories, I felt as though I was hitting my stride. Then I let the day job get in the way. Now I feel as though I'm learning my craft all over again. Things come back as I work through the process, but the pain of learning the process again is pretty acute—when it's not deadened by losing myself in it and producing work I feel is pretty good.

B) I seem to have trouble being a writer at the same time I'm earning money as an editor. This is a problem; one needs a roof in order to write. But one also enjoys the editorial process and, well, writers are fun to work with. What this has meant is a deliberate choice not to edit fiction for a while. But I miss it. So the dilemma becomes, do I pursue midwifery or motherhood? Lately I've chosen motherhood, which I'm digging. A lot. But if midwifery calls, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

Profile

me and a troll
[info]matociquala
it's a great life, if you don't weaken
Elizabeth Bear Dot Com

Latest Month

July 2009
S M T W T F S
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Lizzy Enger