Previous Entry | Next Entry

me and a troll
I could be talking about why Ralph Nader needs to go over somebody's knee. Again. I could be gloating about Abramoff's guilty plea, and enjoying the prospect of the rats going all Room 101 on each other. I could be mourning for thirteen hard-working blue-collar men in a coal mine in Virginia who died horribly because somebody was too goddamned cheap to follow safety regulations. I'm not going to.

I'm going to talk about something essentially pointless, which is to say Brokeback Mountain, which is finally open in Vegas, and which I'm going to go see on Saturday.

Or more precisely, I'm going to talk about the furor. And why the furor makes me tired. Soooo fucking tired.

I haven't seen the movie yet, because, as I said, we just got it here in the depths of Red State Nevada. But I'm going to see it, because I liked Annie Proulx's story, and because--that ugly Hulk incident aside--I love Ang Lee. Lots and lots. Yes, including Ride With The Devil and The Ice Storm. He's the source of my Tobey Maguire fixation, after all. (Mmm. Tobey MaGuire. I'm sorry, where was I?)

Anyway, right, gay cowboys. Thanks.

Just to establish my street cred, I grew up immersed in queer culture. I'm reasonably comfortable with straights, gays, bisexuals, asexuals, transpersons, queers, drag queens, butches and femmes of any gonadal arrangement, poly, monogamous, het, and intersexed persons. The whole glorious menagerie of the human zoo is pretty much cool with me, assuming your adults are consenting. And I tend to write a lot of characters of non-stereotypical sexuality, because I can, and because that's what the people I know are like.

Anyway, what I'm finding kind of... goofy... about the furor is the way people will get het up (beg yer pardon) and go neck deep over imposing their politics on everything. It's not just political correctness; it's their own specific species of political correctness. Every piece of art has to have an agenda, and the agenda has to conform. (I'm talking more about professional criticism here than about private citizen commentary, FWIW.)

So I've read in the past few weeks that the movie is groundbreaking, or that it's unfortunate stereotyping, that it's a blow for gay rights and understanding, that it's a slap in the face of "gay culture" because it's not gay enough. On a mailing list I'm on, one kind soul linked an LA Weekly review that takes the position that the critical response to the movie suffers from some political incorrectness because it focuses on the masculinity of the protagonists. The critic there made the point that every Stonewall drag queen was ten times the hero of any closeted gay cowboy, because those ladies did something about it rather than cringing under the whip.

And the critic is correct in that. The critic is also not thinking beyond his agenda.

Now, I really liked a little movie from about ten years ago called In & Out. I thought it was hysterical, and accessible, and generally deadly funny. I seem to recall it recieving a lot of criticism back in the day for its stereotyping of homosexuals. As kind of frilly, effeminate, Barbra-Streisand-listening girlymen.

It was also a pretty definite plaint in favor of tolerance. Which, to its credit, Proulx's story is, too. In a very different and much less funny way. How about Torch Song Trilogy? You want a heroic drag queen? There's your goddamned heroic drag queen. I love that movie. Or To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar. Heroic drag queens galore.

See, here's the thing. Any given work of art cannot show every aspect of a conversation. It can provide a shattering glimpse of another man's soul and his lonely world, if it's good art. It can punch through a preconception. It can maybe make you care, for a minute, about somebody you might otherwise never have paused to feel compassion for.

And not every work of art that enters a conversation needs to conform to a certain political agenda to have something worthwhile to say.

And there's another reason to put people who are not just like us in our fiction, and to try to understand them.

(I'm also seeing a lot of slash fans talking about how the movie/story is slash, because of the various ways in which it develops. I am tempted every time to point out to them that those are the tropes by which love stories develop, and that slash, being a subgenre of love story (well, with the exception of some of the stuff you Potterfreaks write, OMG, I do not click on those links anymore! she said with affection.) conforms to love story tropes. But that's neither here nor there--it's just kind of a small associated facepalm, and not nearly the headdesk I'm having over this other pile of wank.)

I'm right there with you about the heroism of the Stonewall protestors. And my response would be, so go write me a damned New Yorker story about the Stonewall riots. Art is not a fucking zero sum game. There is not one right way to do this. (There are a shitload of wrong ways, but that's another story.) Hell, maybe I'll write a story about Stonewall. Somebody ought to.

Good lord, people, can we listen to ourselves for a minute?

We're bitching about a movie that's making people react with compassion to the plight of a couple of fictional characters, in ways that may incrementally improve the nationwide level of people giving a fuck about people who are Maybe Not Just Like Them and thus stave off the metaphorical Heat Death of the Universe for a couple more nanoseconds, and we're unhappy because we don't like the quality of the compassion?

Give me a break.

I personally think there's probably something America can learn, today, from a patent (as opposed to a subtextual) love story between two men who are just guys. I don't think it's ducking the issue. I don't think it's spoon-feeding the masses something they're not ready for. And I think, based on what Ang Lee said in the interviews I've listened to, that he wanted to tell a love story. This particular love story.

And I think that's probably what he did, based on my respect for his previous work and a total ignorance of the property in question. It's a particular story, told a particular way, and it's one facet on the diamond.

And, you know, I swear to you, every time I write a book and introduce a character who is gay or bisexual or intersexed or straight or asexual or Jamaican or WASP or Russian or Martian, I have to pause for a moment and make sure I'm thinking about that character as a person and not as a mouthpiece for an agenda.

And I am sure that that's going to piss somebody off. I can see the spots now where my work won't conform to somebody's agenda. (And most of them are Kit, really.) And man, you know, I don't really goddamned care.

Because the instant I start bending my characters into people who exist to advance an agenda rather than to tell a story, I'm creating propaganda, not art.

Comments

Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
[info]lsanderson wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:29 am (UTC)
Oh, that moive that Ang Lee shoulda made...
If I'da done it, it would not have had any waskely sheepmen in it, just good old-fashioned cowboys skinny dipping in the; oh wait, different movie.

It's amazing the number of people that cannot see the movie that is, but can only see the movie they think it shoulda been.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:21 am (UTC)
Re: Oh, that moive that Ang Lee shoulda made...
Hee. Yeah. What you said.
[info]shadowkat67 wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:34 am (UTC)
I find myself nodding along with your post above, partly because it states so perfectly some of my own feelings regarding the hubub over a string of recent movies that include or involve homosexuals or homosexual relationships: Rent, The Producers, Breakfast on Pluto and Brokeback Mountain. I'm looking forward to seeing Brokeback Mt and plan to sometime this weekend hopefully for the same reasons you mentioned above - Ang Lee happens to be one of my favorite directors (enjoyed all his films, with the possible exception of the Hulk - although I found his attempt to recreate a comic onscreen fascinating)
and I enjoy Annie P.

The other thing your post brings to mind is an interview I read some time ago with Clint Eastwood, of all people. The interview was asking him what he felt about the controversary surrounding Million Dollar Baby's euthansia scene. Eastwood responded that he did not have an agenda going into the film, nor did he go into the film with any feelings one way or the other regarding euthansia - nor was that the reason he picked the story. He found the euthansia theme interesting only to the extent that it affected the characters and their journey's. He said that he picked stories based on their characters and arcs. He wasn't interested in doing "message" films or "morality" plays per se, he was interested in doing stories about people, character driven stories. At the time, I thought, yes, that would be an "actor's" response. But, it occured to me that's how I look at stories and how I write my own. I am interested in exploring characters and their motivations. It's what draws me to a book, a tv show or a film - characters, interesting and multifaceted. Not themes.

PS: Congratulations, I saw your books on the shelves of at least two local bookstores - one that only has two shelves dedicated to science fiction and fantasy (they combine them). They were Book Court and Barnes & Noble.
[info]kayselkiemoon wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:56 am (UTC)
brings to mind is an interview I read some time ago with Clint Eastwood, of all people.

now that you mention it, I remember that as well. *nods* glad you did. ^_^
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:17 am (UTC) Expand
Seen In The Wild - [info]almeda - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:24 am (UTC) Expand
[info]przed wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:37 am (UTC)
I'm just going to say one thing:

A-freaking-men.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:15 am (UTC)
*hug* I needed to scream. *g*
[info]mayhap wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:45 am (UTC)
Art is not a fucking zero sum game.

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes. Also, yes. ;)
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:14 am (UTC)
And also, yes. God damn it.
[info]graygirl wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:45 am (UTC)
It's a lovely, lovely movie.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:14 am (UTC)
Thanks for the rec. *g*
[info]riemannia wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:46 am (UTC)
Any given work of art cannot show every aspect of a conversation.

Yes!

I just had to quote a large chunk of this excellent post.

Ang Lee has said he's interested in repression so, you know, it isn't surprising that this is the film he wanted to make.

(I've toyed with seeing RIde With the Devil but never have.)
[info]zingerella wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:04 am (UTC)
What she said!
De-lurking to say that you're my new hero.
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:10 am (UTC) Expand
[info]charmingbillie wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:47 am (UTC)
Okay, I love the Hulk (the movie). I want to be the Hulk. I would be a freaking awesome Hulk.

::ahem::

Yes, thank you. Well said. What I like very much about the story (haven't seen the movie and I don't know when I will) is that it's a universal story and at the same time very specifically the story of these two distinct and specific characters. They are individuals, but they are also people we recognize, feelings we've had, spaces we (or at least a recognizable someone we know) have been in, even if we've never been gay or aren't gay or aren't or have never been cowboys (or sheep herders, even).
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:13 am (UTC)
I love the Hulk too (actually, this post may serve as an example of me hulking out), but that movie, alas, did not work for me.

And yeah, what you said.
(no subject) - [info]charmingbillie - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:29 am (UTC) Expand
[info]kaigou wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:55 am (UTC)
And, you know, I swear to you, every time I write a book and introduce a character... I have to pause for a moment and make sure I'm thinking about that character as a person and not as a mouthpiece for an agenda.

This is one of the reasons I look back with fondness on Roseanne, a show I'd watched but rarely while it was on the air, but I caught it enough that I was watching when the Martin Mull character was introduced -- the gay diner-owner. He wasn't anything that phenomenal; he wasn't a saint or something just because his character had a designation of "gay" in the description. He was just as much of a jerk as the rest of the characters. There was something almost delightfully subversive in that.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:25 am (UTC)
*g* I love your icon.
(no subject) - [info]kaigou - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:40 am (UTC) Expand
[info]kayselkiemoon wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:02 am (UTC)
I've been reading and rereading your post, thinking on what most I want to say besides yes.

your words vibrate strongly in me. they are important. I am glad you've said them. yes.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:21 am (UTC)
I'm glad they worked for you. *g*
[info]mekkavandexter wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:11 am (UTC)
yanno, i loved, loved, loved Brokeback. So much. If only because it was love, my new best friend Ian MCullough says this:

I'm on the chopping block
Chopping off my stopping thoughts
Self-doubt and selfism
Were the cheapest things I ever bought

When you say it's love
D'ya mean the back of love?

that's how I see that movie, the Back of Love. Love coming on face first strong is all rosy cheeks and floating petals, but it's not real, the back of it is what's real, and that's what the story, to me, is about: The Back of Love. All the hard, desperate misery of it. Anyone can do romance and candles, but the pain of it, to go through that, that's love.

also, Torch Song? My favourite movie possibly of all time. Beautiful.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:24 am (UTC)
Yes. That's what the story is about, anyway. It's not about the characters being gay. It's about the characters fucking up their lives.

Different story.

And yeah, I love Torch Song soooo much.
(no subject) - [info]stillnotbored - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:41 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]mekkavandexter - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:54 am (UTC) Expand
[info]almeda wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:17 am (UTC)
Be sure to tell us how he brought tea into it, as I'm told he manages to make it an important metaphor/character/whatever in all his flicks (yes, Hulk too, at least according to my informant). :->

Also? Ook, ook. AOL. And, "Preach it, sistah."
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:24 am (UTC)
tea is life.
[info]joecrow wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:20 am (UTC)
Because the instant I start bending my characters into people who exist to advance an agenda rather than to tell a story, I'm creating propaganda, not art.

Problem is, there's a lot of folks who either don't realize that that difference exists, or who object a priori to non-ideological art. A'course, a lot of the time, these same folks end up stabbing every piece of ideological art to death because it fails to meet their internal standards of ideological purity. Fuckem.

Me, I just like the crashy-bang, the nyarrrr! Kill!!, and the weirdosity. I have simple tastes, and ideological purity tastes funny.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:26 am (UTC)
fuckem. Indeed.
(no subject) - [info]vito_excalibur - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:44 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:53 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]joecrow - Jan. 4th, 2006 04:54 am (UTC) Expand
[info]heimshal wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:30 am (UTC)
*must resist urge to write unsexed Zoloft erotica*
[info]copperwise wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:48 am (UTC)
I'm a little annoyed with the agenda.

It's a beautiful movie. It's a sad movie. It's a love story. It's got a seed of truth in it that not everyone is going to like. Should we only tell the stories of people who were heroic and came out? Can't we tell everyones story?

It's a very human movie. Unfortunately human beings do not always conform to the expectations of other human beings. It's called life, people.


[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:54 am (UTC)
yeah, what you said.
[info]stwish wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:53 am (UTC)
I'm not going to see Breakback mountain, becuse, A) Me and wife-person dont go see love stories, B) I hate cowboys, and C) I'm A grumpy old fart.

But i think it's great becuse A) Any all male culture, like cowboys or sailors has got to be homoerotic by defination and you might as well admit it and go on, and B) Love is hard to get. C) Almost all people are capable of love, if they allow themselves to so be. And wtfgaf about somebody else's lovelife?

And about the Hulk. I didnt like the movie in the theater, but i saw the last half on TV last week and it was pretty damn good... I dont know why, except that the Hulk is just too f---ing big on the movie screen.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 04:55 am (UTC)
There ya go. And yeah to all of that.

I loved Sam Eliot's laser-guided moustache....
[info]kendwoods wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:09 am (UTC)
I love you maam.

:-)

And BBM the movie is every bit as worthy as the short story.

Ang Lee, Larry McMurtry, and Diana Ossana done good.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:13 am (UTC)
I love you too.

And yay!
[info]nagasvoice wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:18 am (UTC)
Word!
Word.
"Art is not a zero-sum game!"
Some of us would argue that economics is not, either, that raising many of us from poverty will help many more in multiple ways--but that's heading off in the direction of political arguments over mercantilism. For example, if Britain expands its markets so it gets more, then necessarily France gets a smaller share of the pie, for instance. That analogy has no room for the idea that whole darned pie can grow *bigger*.
But that's *my* ideology yelling.
Of course some people like their ideology really loud and clear and simple and as easy as possible to diagnose as properly soothing to their views. They may be ridiculously noisy about it, but I don't think it's all that common a type of reader. IMHO, for most readers, if they catch you lecturing them, they get turned off. Big-time. Even if they sorta agree with your views, they're not comfortable about treating characters like puppets on strings, even in a good cause.
There's writers that start with some economic or political theory as their story idea, and flesh it out to show their point, but if they don't do a good job on characterization, nobody cares. (Word: "Fuckem".)
I've noticed they also seem to lack a sense of humility in the face of real, peculiar, and contradictory human beings, too. I've been finding real people confounding me every which way, to the point of me saying, "Heck, I don't know anything, any more. You tell me!"
But enough midlife crisis.
Time for tea. Must get more of that right now, to gow tih the new Johnny Cash cd.
[info]gwynnega wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:26 am (UTC)
Yes, exactly - and beautifully said.
[info]spimby wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:31 am (UTC)
"I could be mourning for thirteen hard-working blue-collar men in a coal mine in Virginia who died horribly because somebody was too goddamned cheap to follow safety regulations."

Er...

[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:48 am (UTC)
Some days, it's fucking good to be wrong.
(no subject) - [info]feyandstrange - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:23 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:34 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]spimby - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:07 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]spimby - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:08 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:54 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]coffeeem wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:43 am (UTC)
Saying that the characters in Brokeback Mountain aren't "gay enough" is saying that the experience of the majority of gay, lesbian, bi, and trans people is irrelevant and worthless. Anyone who says it within arm's reach of me goes straight into the horse trough, and is welcome to stay there until he or she has framed a convincing retraction. The horses are patient.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:49 am (UTC)
w007!

I'm sure you can use [info]dancinghorse's water trough if you need a backup.
(no subject) - [info]coffeeem - Jan. 4th, 2006 05:20 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]buymeaclue - Jan. 4th, 2006 05:05 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]lnhammer - Jan. 4th, 2006 10:40 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]volterraread wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:50 am (UTC)
Amen. Can't wait to see this movie either. So there are agendas outside of it being (what looks like) a bittersweet love story? I had hints of "agendas" when I saw a story on how the promo varies from place to place. Some posters are just the two guys, other posters feature them with their wives. But that's just to get bums on seats.

Like promoing "The Family Stone" as a hilarious comedy and end up crying through about half of it. (Great film, btw).
[info]white_serpent wrote:
Jan. 6th, 2006 09:01 pm (UTC)
Like promoing "The Family Stone" as a hilarious comedy and end up crying through about half of it.

You, too? I think that movie was actually a bit confused itself about what it was. (Why else the screwball scenes near the end?) I'm a little bitter, though, that they didn't advertize the film's tragic elements more.

I'm not too enthused about BBM, either, and probably won't see it. But at least I *know* that from the advertizing.

I like books to have a lot of depth. When it comes to movies, I like happy and mindless entertainment.
[info]deedop wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:59 am (UTC)
Having just returned home from a preview community theater performance of a ::cough:: Ayn Rand play, I thank you for this from the bottom of my heart.
[info]bibliotrope wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 06:17 am (UTC)
I could be mourning for thirteen hard-working blue-collar men in a coal mine in Virginia who died horribly . . .

Well, actually, it's West Virginia. We've been a separate state since 1863.

And -- best news of all -- twelve of the thirteen men are alive! Only one of them died.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 06:34 am (UTC)
Yep. Good news indeed.
(no subject) - [info]bibliotrope - Jan. 4th, 2006 05:24 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]feyandstrange wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 06:59 am (UTC)
I'm shockingly isolated from mass media, and am not in general inclined to go to migraines movies on the big screen, and am not a Westerns fan, and so won't be seeing the movie.

Besides, if I want to see gay cowboys, I just head over to the local gay bars on squaredancing night. (I wonder if this movie will bring cowboyish clothes back into fashion in the gay man community?)

...and I refuse to go looking for Butch&Sundance slash fanfic. (Besides, they're clearly polyamorous bisexuals.)

Half the time when I start developing a character, I have no clue what their sexuality is. LIke most people, I think I'm normal deep down in my guts, and so everyone must be, like me, a fairly even-gender-biased bisexual, at least until mentioned otherwise. If the character's froom a rather unenlightened age, they probably default to hetero thanks to their society and upbringing, like most people do; there's the societal "default" setting for such things a lot of the time. But if I'm roughing out a secondary character for a specific role that isn't romantic or sexual in nature, I may not realize for pages that the shuttle pilot is a lesbian; heck, I may never. I had a presumed-hetero character surprise me a bit by deciding to sleep with his best friend the night they'd gone out drinking because the character'd just been dumped and divorced. While it was an entirely in-character stupid impulse, it surprised me - at the very least, I thought he liked them femmier.

I'm glad we're getting to the stage where a queer character can be something beyond "the token gay" or "I talk about queerness all the time" person. Those weren't characters; they were billboards. People of color and women went through that stage too, in somewhat different ways. (Love interests and servants, sure, but starship bridge crew?)

Give it credit, Roddenberry's first crew almost never made their women or people of non-whiteness wave the flag of their cause, at least if they were human. Poor Spock had to constrantly go on about his Vulcan-ness, just in case our TV reception was so poor we couldn't tell he was supposed to be a space alien. But in character, Uhura and Sulu never had to champion the rights of women or people of color. (Okay, there was some Swahili, but that was okay. And letting Takei turn the katana into a rapier makes up for that.) And by being *people* and every day bridge crew instead of tokens, they made so much more progress than tokenism could. And the actors were able to champion those causes as a result. (God, I hope we get Takei as Pride Parade Grand Marshal! Oh, the fangirl squeeing! I'd totally make up a march contingent of people in Trek uniforms for that, if someone didn't beat me to it. And I'd make [info]djfanboy do the Gay Klingon he keeps threatening, and I'd make a Next Gen uniform in pink instead of red - ooh, a whole rainbow of 'em! Marching arm in arm down Market Street, boy-boy-girl-girl-alien-alien-Sister of Perpetual Indulgence!! ...okay, stopping now. Bad digression, no biscuit.)
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 07:01 am (UTC)
Your mental image sent me to a happy place.
[info]feyandstrange wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 07:32 am (UTC)
and argh! one of my friends just posted an 'Ethical Deconstruction of Brokeback' entry. (If I'm following him, he's mad because the Gay Love Poster Children are unethical, but nobody else is. WTF?) I may have to link back here. Or just roll up a printout of this entry and bop him on the head with it.
[info]matociquala wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 03:57 pm (UTC)
Please! No violence!
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

Profile

me and a troll
[info]matociquala
it's a great life, if you don't weaken
Elizabeth Bear Dot Com

Latest Month

July 2009
S M T W T F S
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Lizzy Enger