writing rengeek magpie mind

December 2014

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writing rengeek magpie mind

Hey, Harlan?

This is so not okay.

***

Comments

It's not just the tit-grab. It's also poking Rachel in the stomach uninvited.

When I say "This is so not okay," I mean the pattern of treating women as if their personal space is not sovereign.

Rachel and Connie are both strong women, and more than capable of standing up to Harlan. They get to decide how they want to respond to a given incident directed at them. (And both seem to have.) But I think, as a community, *we* need to say "This type of behavior is beyond the pale and will not be tolerated."
Yeah. And I may be alone in this, but I think using this incident to trot out every reason people don't like him, every snide remark he's ever made, is actually a way to belittle the severity of this real, unambiguous offense. I've heard plenty of stories about him before this, everyone has, but it's never added up to anything awful -- people will be furious, and declare him a hateful little man, and then they tell a story that culminates in him saying -- an joke that wasn't funny!! or something equally horrible, and I never really could tell what the big deal was.

Anyway, this is totally different. And I wonder if he was going for something like this, but the thing is, that wasn't okay either, at all.
Yeah. And I may be alone in this, but I think using this incident to trot out every reason people don't like him, every snide remark he's ever made, is actually a way to belittle the severity of this real, unambiguous offense.

I agree absolutely.
Me too, and well said. Exactly.
You know, I'm so terribly torn on that kiss. Even at the moment I saw it, I was stunned that Halle Berry didn't haul off and slap him one, because holy gods did he deserve it. And at the same time, I think that was simply the *greatest* kiss I've ever seen, and I am eternally grateful to Halle Berry for *not* hauling off and slapping him one, even though he roundly deserved it.
But I think, as a community, *we* need to say "This type of behavior is beyond the pale and will not be tolerated."

Absolutely. The comics community is going through the same thing with Taki Soma/Charles Brownstein -- drunken hijinks or harassment? And it that case, it's hard to draw the line, but Charles apologized, at least, and I really doubt Harlan will, judging by his pattern of behavior.

autonomy and enough

They get to decide how they want to respond to a given incident directed at them. (And both seem to have.) But I think, as a community, *we* need to say "This type of behavior is beyond the pale and will not be tolerated."

Yes. I think taking up the cudgels in the names of the women involved, demanding apologies to them, takes away their right to exercise whatever requirements for a response they are comfortable with. They've already had their autonomy impinged upon by Ellison; raising an outcry "on their behalf" just does it twice.

To me the modern trend to demand apologies is ludicrous. They're so often supplied as a jerk of the knee, as a formula without meaning, the words babbled at the end of confession. And demanding one from Harlan Ellison, based on his past record, is ridiculous. We saw the quasi-one he gave: to me it's a perfect sample of the contemporary required apology, words without meaning. It doesn't change a thing; it certainly doesn't express regret. And the man is 72 years old by his own admission. He is not going to change.

But the community--ah. There are far more like Ellison, and younger. All those male gamers whose female co-gamers end each game with their characters naked and tied up? The pros and fans whose looks are insulted publicly, whose arguments are rudely dismissed, for no other reason than that they are female? The female panelists who are cut off by their male counterparts, the female pros who are told their work doesn't rate?

Enough. These men need to know our bodies are not props; that our casings do not mean our minds and our work is inferior. If they want respect, they need to give it. We need to stop being good sports when men are oafs.

Tamora Pierce

Re: autonomy and enough

If they want respect, they need to give it.

Oh yes. Perfect.

And lovely to meet you, by the way.

Re: autonomy and enough

Lovely to meet you, as well, even if it took something this nasty to bring me out of my sett!

Re: autonomy and enough

Badgers welcome. *g*