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bear by san

March 2017

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sf farscape pilot

An interesting examination of the relationship between the queer community and the African-american civil rights movement. (And no, people of color are not responsible for the passage of Prop 8., so please, guys, stop spreading that meme until you do a little reading.)

I have to say that slit's experience of the modern queer community is not very similar to my experience of the radical lesbian community (aka The Community) of the 1980s, where women of color were in many ways seen as More Perfect Lesbians, possibly because the women's community in those days was a little hung up on mythologizing the survivors of oppression. But I'm not connected with any Communities these days, except inasmuch as I have friends who participate in several, and I have no idea what the current state of the zeitgeist in queer radicalism is. If it's as slit presents it, I think I'm just as happy not to be.

Comments

A fair number of my students (I teach at an HBCU) certainly fit the conservative-religious meme (there was one young woman who tried to have me fired for atheism, and I know of cases where students voted for W in 2004 because conservative preachers pushed the gay marriage issue). I've been told more than once by students that sexuality is chosen, and met with blank incomprehension when I say that I don't recall choosing to be straight. On the other hand, most of my students are pretty tolerant of difference, and don't treat the lesbian and gay students differently or badly.
I've been told more than once by students that sexuality is chosen, and met with blank incomprehension when I say that I don't recall choosing to be straight.

*applauds*

Thankfully I don't have to deal with people like that often. I think it'd push my patience past it's limit.
There's also a really interesting discussion in the comments over here: http://debg.livejournal.com/949119.html between debg and kvaadk - much more nuance and thought than I've seen most places.

ETA: my favorite line: "And for the record: God does not hate faggots. He loves faggots -- though I doubt he calls them that. He loves straights, gays, communists ... He even loves Republicans. Anyone who tells you he doesn't is talking about some other god. The Lord has mad agape skills."

"mad agape skills" - that's what I strive for.


Edited at 2008-11-09 09:29 pm (UTC)
*g*

God may have mad agape skills, but I've never seen any evidence of him loving *anybody.* So if I ever meet God, I'm punching him in the nose. Just for the record.

Fortunately, since I'm pretty sure God doesn't exist, I'm unlikely to have to make good on that. But I'm tired of supreme beings who say they love me when they really just like the sound my head makes when it bounces off the headboard.

(Everybody else is certainly entitled to their religion, and I would never denigrate that religion. But I wish they would keep it from interfering with my attempts to live my life.)
I'm tired of supreme beings who say they love me when they really just like the sound my head makes when it bounces off the headboard.

There is an awesome story in there somewhere.
I'd be totally cool with gods if people who own them would just keep them off my lawn and out of my flowerbeds. Please curb your god! Please spay or neuter your deity! Responsible god ownership helps the whole god community!
Problem is, some deities can be downright obnoxious.

Coyote or Loki, for two.
I blame the owners. Gods should be properly socialized and not be allowed to roam.
Yeah, right. You think a teenager is obnoxious when grounded, you just try telling a god(dess) they aren't allowed to go out to all hours and have to take out the bins.
I resent that! Coyote is not obnoxious.

Usuall..., um, oft.., er, all the time. ;>.>

Now I won't argue with you about Loki, but then, I don't talk to him.

Besides, for a really obnoxious Trickster it's hard to go past Brer Rabbit.
Loki's not TOO bad, as long as you keep the snakes away. And police him around fires. And, oh, never chain him to ANYTHING. Oh, yes, keep him from turning female, he's got a habit of spawning world-earting monsters while female. Oh, yeah, keep him away from mistletoe, apples and, eh, essentially anything from the vegetable, animal or mineral kingdom. And... And...

But deep down, he's a good lad.
I'm not so much with the God/god thang either (cheerfully agnostic Unitarian Universalist here), but I love the idea of "mad agape skills".
It is a good line.

*g*
How about it's the same old Left story. Too much introspection, not enough organization.
An ongoing problem for sure.
Yeah.

I've been following some of the PUMA discussions post-election. Both the Left and the Right versions are downright weird. But the Left looks like the worst cases of the 90s feminist ideology gone even deeper into a Puritan, perfectionist ideology.
This is not a moral problem. it is a political problem. Same rules apply to any political problem. How many people you got? How many do you need? What can you trade to get the votes you need?

Shaming people, assuming moral superiority, appealing to higher authority, all BS. There is a good strong base who thinks this is the major problem in America right now. Others have other concerns. The rest is tactics.
That's not <;j user="pecunium">'s argument at all, as I understand it. His argument is that the meme going around, "black voters are to blame for the passage of prop 8" is a fallacy. Which he illustrates with numbers taken from exit polls--yes, it may be that 70% of black voters voted in favor of it, but in real numbers, that does not make up to the number of votes by which it passed.

What concerns me is the ease with which people I know and respect are swinging an awfully broad racial blame brush, and I have heard (repeatedly) sentiments like, "If all the African-Americans hadn't turned out for Obama, it wouldn't have passed."

I do think your second-to-last paragraph contains some sense, but again, it's an awfully broad brush, and it ignores one-third of the votes.
We're having two entirely different conversations, I fear--and though I'm rather used to that with you, I also find it kind of frustrating.

So, you know. Enjoy your moral victory. And come back when you can talk without slinging insults.
Let me clarify:

What you are reading and what I am writing are not the same thing.

But you're so busy being self-righteous and condescending and insulting that you can't be arsed to actually listen to what I'm saying. And that means I have no further interest in this conversation.